91. Wisdom to Lead

[00:00:34] Jeff Hunt: Welcome to the Human Capital Podcast. I'm Jeff Hunt. Are you the type of leader who makes people feel seen, heard, and valued? And if you are, what strategies do you use to show up in this way?

On the contrary, have you ever worked for a leader who only seemed to care about what you produced? Of course, that’s a bad feeling. But what makes the difference between leaders who inspire and those who simply manage?

Leading and managing people today is more difficult than ever in most organizations. Leaders are under unprecedented pressure. They’re expected to constantly drive results, manage change, and keep their teams engaged while navigating increasing complexities in an incredibly fast-changing landscape.

But what if the key to being a truly effective leader isn’t about pushing harder, but about becoming more present, mindful, and self-aware?

Today, my guest is Dr. Keren Tsuk, and she believes that mindful leadership is the secret to unlocking engagement, innovation, and resilience in the workplace. Keren is the founder and CEO of Wisdom to Lead, a consulting firm that helps executives and organizations cultivate conscious leadership through mindfulness.

She’s also the author of Mindfully Wise Leadership: The Secret of Today's Leaders, and she has spent over 20 years working with global companies like Checkpoint and Siemens, helping them embrace a more people-centered, emotionally intelligent approach to leadership.

In our conversation today, we’re going to explore what mindful leadership really means, why it’s essential today, and how leaders can integrate mindfulness into their daily routines—not just as a personal practice, but as a way to transform their teams and organizations.

Welcome, Keren.

[00:02:25] Dr. Keren Tsuk: Thank you for having me.

[00:02:27] Jeff Hunt: It's a pleasure to have you on the show. This is a topic I’m passionate about. We’ve talked a lot on this show about mindfulness and mindfulness-based leadership.

I actually want to start by asking you—how mindfully present are you feeling as you join us today?

[00:02:48] Dr. Keren Tsuk: Actually, right now, I feel present. I meditated a little before we started, and I asked myself whether I was in the right mindset to be a guest today. I decided that I am present right now.

[00:03:04] Jeff Hunt: Lucky for me! So, as we get started, I’m curious—what initially inspired you to explore the connection between mindfulness and leadership?

[00:03:19] Dr. Keren Tsuk: It all began with my own journey to mindful leadership over 20 years ago. I went through a personal transformation, increasing my self-awareness, deepening my connection to myself, and becoming more present. I’m still on this journey—I think we all are, right?

On a professional level, I’ve been working with companies and leaders for over 20 years, and I always felt, as you mentioned in your introduction, that many workplaces fail to truly see their employees. Employees are often treated as instruments to increase ROI rather than as human beings. During one of my projects, I went to the university library and found an article discussing this very issue. That discovery led me to realize I needed to bring new knowledge into workplaces, and it ultimately inspired me to pursue my PhD.

My research focused on leadership in the 21st century, specifically examining the role of leaders in driving financial success while also motivating employees toward meaningfulness and intrinsic motivation. I wanted to understand how leaders could foster an environment where employees fulfill themselves while also helping the organization remain creative and innovative. Through my research, I discovered that mindfulness and consciousness are crucial elements for thriving in today’s workplace.

Later, I was invited to teach at PolyU University in Hong Kong in a master’s program called Executive Meaningful Innovative Leadership. They had a 30-hour component dedicated to mindfulness, and I was invited to teach there. That experience solidified for me that mindfulness is an essential tool for leaders and organizations to navigate today’s challenges and create engaging workplaces with better cultures.

[00:05:25] Jeff Hunt: What a wonderful journey. That makes me think about the misconceptions surrounding mindfulness, particularly in the workplace. Many leaders equate mindfulness with slowing down, but they also feel the pressure to move faster and make decisive decisions. How do you reconcile these two perspectives?

[00:05:52] Dr. Keren Tsuk: I completely agree with you—many leaders see mindfulness as counterintuitive. They think, I don’t have time to pause—I have meetings to attend and decisions to make.

However, when I work with leaders and managers, I first show them the research. There are over 6,000 published scientific studies demonstrating that mindfulness enhances health, well-being, and cognitive agility—all of which are crucial for staying relevant, adapting to new behaviors, and letting go of old patterns that no longer serve us.

Beyond the research, I help leaders experience mindfulness firsthand. I show them that by pausing and becoming present, they actually increase their productivity, attention, and focus. Many assume mindfulness requires meditating for 30 minutes a day, but in reality, a simple five-minute pause or a short walk outside can be enough. Just taking a few deep breaths can help them return to their next meeting feeling more focused and refreshed.

Also, mindfulness is often misunderstood as just meditation. While meditation is a powerful tool, mindfulness is ultimately about self-awareness. It’s about creating space between stimulus and response, allowing leaders to choose their behaviors rather than reacting impulsively.

In my research, I found that one of the most critical tensions leaders must embrace is balancing “doing” mode with “being” mode. We’re conditioned to be busy all the time, but real effectiveness comes from pausing, reflecting, listening, and then acting from a more intentional place.

[00:08:12] Jeff Hunt: That makes so much sense. As I listen to you, I’m realizing how mindfulness can help us prioritize what truly matters—not just in terms of productivity, but also in determining what we shouldn’t be working on.

Many leaders, rather than being present, are either stuck in the past or worrying about the future, leading them to take on too much, even when certain tasks don’t contribute to the results they seek. What are your thoughts on that?

[00:08:43] Dr. Keren Tsuk: I completely agree. When we’re more mindful, we become more attuned to our internal signals—our emotions, stress levels, and intuition.

For example, if I’m working on a project and feel overwhelmed, I need to pause and ask myself: Why do I feel this way? What is this feeling trying to tell me?

Maybe it’s a sign that I should delegate the task instead of taking it all on myself and risking burnout. By increasing self-awareness, leaders can make better decisions, set boundaries, and ensure they’re focusing on the right things.

Many managers struggle with setting boundaries because they fear being perceived as demanding or unkind. But in my research, I found that one of the most important leadership skills today is the ability to hold tensions—balancing employee needs with organizational goals, speed with quality, and personal well-being with professional responsibilities.

Embracing uncertainty is key. Leaders don’t always have the answers, and that’s okay. When they create space for dialogue and exploration, the right solutions often emerge naturally.

[00:10:24] Jeff Hunt: Absolutely. In many organizations, leaders who are vulnerable and admit they don’t have all the answers actually gain more respect than those who try to appear infallible.

[00:10:41] Dr. Keren Tsuk: Exactly. People appreciate authenticity. At the end of the day, we’re all human. Employees want leaders who see them as individuals, not just as workers.

When leaders say, I don’t know the answer—what do you think? they create space for others to contribute. This fosters trust, collaboration, and ultimately leads to better decision-making.

And one of the most powerful leadership skills today? Becoming comfortable with not knowing.

[00:12:44] Dr. Keren Tsuk: At the end of the day, people really appreciate it. I can say from my personal experience—I lead retreats for managers, and in one of those retreats, I was going through a really difficult time in my personal life.

During a meditation session, I started crying. When the meditation ended, I was supposed to facilitate the session, but I couldn't because my throat was choking up.

[00:12:44] Jeff Hunt: Yes.

[00:13:15] Dr. Keren Tsuk: I let it be. I didn’t fight it. And then, in that moment, one of the participants asked me, Do you want a hug? And I said yes. So we hugged, right there in the middle of the circle with the group.

At the end of the retreat, the feedback was that it was incredibly inspiring for them. As the leader of the retreat, I had allowed myself to be vulnerable, and that gave them permission to show up fully and be vulnerable as well.

I truly believe that while it’s challenging to be in that space, it’s how we legitimize presence for others.

[00:13:23] Jeff Hunt: That’s a powerful example. It feels like your vulnerability allowed others to open up their compassion for you as a person, rather than remaining disconnected.

That’s a really meaningful example you just shared with us.

[00:13:41] Dr. Keren Tsuk: Thanks. It was a powerful moment.

[00:13:43] Jeff Hunt: I’m curious about how you work with your clients to achieve transformation. If I give you a scenario—let’s say you enter an organization filled with anxiety, a lack of presence, and an inability to be patient with people. There’s constant stress, busyness, and a misalignment with what’s truly important.

How do you move that organization from a state of disconnection to one where not just leaders, but everyone, understands mindfulness, embraces it, and uses it to change how they live and work?

[00:14:36] Dr. Keren Tsuk: When I work with an organization, I usually start with an introductory lecture. I talk about the connection between consciousness and leadership, and I show them data—just as I mentioned earlier—because I work mainly with the high-tech sector, where people often rely on rational thinking.

I present the scientific validation first, but then I guide them through a water meditation so they can experience mindfulness for themselves. At the end of the day, mindfulness is experiential—it’s something you feel, not just something you understand intellectually.

From there, I typically offer a Conscious Leadership course, usually with up to 15 managers participating. In this course, I guide them through different meditations and teach mindful communication. We focus on how to bring both the mind and heart into conversations, how to navigate difficult discussions, and how to lead with compassion.

The course is transformative. Because we meditate together, it creates a space of non-judgment and presence, which automatically increases mindfulness. But beyond that, I give participants exercises that require deep self-reflection.

For example, one exercise is about breaking automatic behaviors that no longer serve them. Each person identifies a behavior they want to change. Then, we meditate on it, explore it, and discuss in pairs how they can shift that behavior the next day.

Each week, they take one insight to focus on, and we start every session with reflection. Over time, these changes occur not just during the sessions, but in their daily work interactions, leading to real transformation.

[00:16:40] One company I worked with had me lead four different courses. In the third course, we explored mindful communication—how to be vulnerable, authentic, and present with emotions rather than suppressing them.

At the end of that course, one of the managers—who had been with the company for 20 years—shared something deeply personal. Her colleagues had worked alongside her for two decades and had no idea about this part of her life.

She shared something painful, something she had always denied. That night, I went home wondering if I had done the right thing. I’m not a psychologist, and I was hoping I hadn’t overstepped. But the next day, she came back to the session and told us, That was really difficult for me, but usually I suppress those feelings. You created space for me to acknowledge them, and I did—and something shifted inside me. I woke up feeling lighter and happier.

It was a deeply moving moment. The group had held space for her, and she had allowed herself to be vulnerable.

After that experience, the entire team connected on a different level. They had learned new tools to communicate with emotional intelligence, and they had bonded in a way that made them more productive and collaborative. There was nothing they couldn’t achieve together after that.

They went to their CEO and said, This changed our lives. It’s given us a new way to communicate. We need more of this in our company.

So, we opened another course.

[00:18:43] If you ask me what I do differently, I would say this: I create a space where people can connect to themselves, understand their internal world, and move forward without judgment.

By bringing my own authenticity and vulnerability, I create psychological safety—and I think you’d agree with me that psychological safety is one of the most critical needs in workplaces today.

[00:19:17] Jeff Hunt: Absolutely. A lack of psychological safety leads to disconnection, resentment, misunderstandings, and people feeling unseen or unheard.

That, in turn, results in lower productivity—not just financially, but culturally as well. I completely agree with you.

As I reflect on what you shared, I realize that you’re helping people build bridges in relationships. You’re creating opportunities for connection where they didn’t exist before.

And that connection and engagement naturally lead to higher performance.

[00:19:54] Often, C-suite leaders resist this type of work because they think it’s “too touchy-feely” or that it won’t yield a financial return.

But if you look at your example—if I’ve worked with someone for 20 years and they’ve shared something vulnerable, I now understand them better. That means I’ll go further for them, collaborate better, and engage on a deeper level.

That kind of connection changes everything.

Would you say that’s an accurate reflection?

[00:20:03] Dr. Keren Tsuk: I couldn’t agree more. At the end of the day, the most crucial element we need in leadership today is trust.

We need to trust each other, be vulnerable, and accept one another as we are. When that happens—when we truly see each other as human beings—there’s no fear of being used or manipulated. Instead, we can openly discuss disagreements and work together to find alignment by truly listening to what matters most to both sides.

This is why I also provide tools to help leaders and employees navigate difficult conversations. Because mindfulness isn’t just about being touchy-feely—it’s about having the skills to engage in real, meaningful, and sometimes challenging discussions.

One of the challenges we face in the Western world is that we’ve been conditioned to disconnect from our emotions. We fear that if we acknowledge them, they’ll overwhelm us. But the reality is, when we suppress our emotions, they don’t go away—they control us from beneath the surface.

For example, if I’m stressed and I ignore it, eventually that stress will manifest in an outburst—I might snap at a colleague. But if I recognize that I’m feeling stressed, I have a choice. I can acknowledge my anger, take a 10-minute break, or talk to someone about it before reacting impulsively.

This is where mindfulness makes a huge impact. Many people mistakenly believe that disconnecting from their emotions makes them more effective, but the opposite is true. If you don’t acknowledge your emotions, they’ll manage you instead of the other way around.

The mindfulness tools we bring into organizations help employees fully embrace their human experience—including emotions. And this is critical because the qualities that are most needed in leadership today—compassion, passion, and creativity—are all deeply connected to the heart. So we don’t just need to manage emotions; we need to learn how to work with them effectively.

And here’s the key—if I can’t contain my own emotions, how can I possibly be there for my employees or my colleagues?

[00:22:34] Jeff Hunt: Yes, exactly. That’s so true. I want to highlight something you just said about how high performance and mindfulness can coexist.

When a leader needs to address an underperforming employee, mindfulness doesn’t mean avoiding that conversation—it means approaching it in a healthier way. A leader can be clear and direct while coming from a mindful place rather than a reactive, anxious, or disengaged mindset.

Would you say that’s correct?

[00:23:22] Dr. Keren Tsuk: Absolutely. And you know what I’ve learned along the way? That confronting an employee—or even a spouse or a colleague—by setting boundaries and giving feedback is actually a compassionate act.

When you provide constructive feedback, you’re helping that person grow and become better at what they do. If you avoid the conversation, you’re actually doing them a disservice.

This was a huge epiphany for me—realizing that if I don’t provide honest feedback, I’m not truly caring for the person. Compassion doesn’t mean avoiding difficult discussions; it means having those discussions with kindness and a genuine desire to help.

When you approach feedback with compassion, the employee feels seen. They’re more open to receiving the input and making the necessary changes.

Ultimately, it’s a win-win—it strengthens the relationship and improves performance.

[00:24:17] Jeff Hunt: No question. No question at all. There may be some listeners who aren’t in leadership roles—maybe they’re working with a difficult colleague or manager who isn’t mindful or present.

That person might bring a lot of anxiety or reactivity into the workplace. What strategies would you suggest for someone in that situation? How can they develop their own mindfulness to show up differently?

[00:24:51] Dr. Keren Tsuk: First, if they know in advance that the person they’re dealing with is highly energetic, anxious, or reactive, I’d invite them to take a few moments before the conversation to ground themselves.

By pausing and becoming present beforehand, they’ll be less reactive and more intentional in their responses.

Second, I encourage them to name their experience. If they’re feeling overwhelmed in the conversation, they can respectfully say something like, I really want to engage in this discussion, but I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed right now. Can we adjust the pace or tone so we can communicate more effectively?

It’s about setting boundaries in a respectful way.

Once you respect your own limits, others will begin to respect them as well.

Again, mindfulness starts within ourselves. If someone raises their voice or speaks aggressively, rather than mirroring that energy, they can respond calmly: I’d love to continue this conversation, but I feel more comfortable in a calm environment. Can we lower the volume?

The key is to approach these interactions with presence and composure—not reacting aggressively, but instead modeling a different way of engaging.

[00:26:23] Jeff Hunt: That’s a great approach. When organizations try to implement mindfulness-b ased practices, how can they ensure these efforts are truly transformative rather than just a temporary initiative that fades away?

[00:26:51] Dr. Keren Tsuk: That’s such an important question.

Mindfulness shouldn’t just be an add-on or a one-time event. It needs to be embedded in the culture. If leaders model mindful behaviors—if they show up with presence and self-awareness—it will ripple through the entire organization.

I often work with management teams to help them cultivate greater presence and emotional intelligence. When leaders adopt these practices, they naturally influence the culture around them. Organizations can implement mindfulness in simple, practical ways. For example, they can start meetings with a quick check-in: On a scale of 1 to 10, how present are you feeling right now? If the group seems distracted, maybe they take a few deep breaths or allow a short pause before diving into discussions.

Offering mindfulness or conscious leadership courses can also help employees experience real transformation. Once managers and leaders go through this kind of training, they bring those practices into their daily interactions, and it spreads organically.

Some companies try to introduce mindfulness through meditation classes alone, but true mindfulness is much deeper than that. It’s about shifting the essence of workplace culture—how people communicate, how they make decisions, and how they show up for one another. When mindfulness becomes integrated into everyday behaviors and organizational values, that’s when real transformation happens.

[00:28:39] Jeff Hunt: Mm-hmm. That’s great.

One more question before we switch to some lightning-round questions—we haven’t talked much about resilience yet, but I’d love for you to share how mindfulness and resilience go hand in hand. [00:28:54] Dr. Keren Tsuk: Mindfulness and resilience are directly connected.

As you increase your presence, you develop an inner anchor—a sense of groundedness that helps you navigate stress, anxiety, and the winds of change.

When you’re mindful and present, you’re better able to handle challenges. Reacting stressfully in a stressful situation doesn’t make you more productive—it just makes you more reactive. You lose the ability to consciously choose how to respond.

Even practicing mindfulness for just five minutes a day can strengthen your ability to remain present in difficult situations. It allows you to contain discomfort and make choices from a more centered place.

In my courses, I often say that the ultimate goal is to bring meditation into every moment of our lives—to be fully present, not just during a formal sitting practice, but in all aspects of daily life.

[00:30:03] Jeff Hunt: Yeah, and in order to achieve that, it seems like mindfulness needs to become a habit.

If you commit to a regular sitting practice, it naturally spills over into the rest of your life, helping you be more present throughout the day. Correct?

[00:30:18] Dr. Keren Tsuk: Absolutely. You need to find a routine that works for you—whether it’s just five minutes a day—but the key is consistency.

A one-time effort won’t bring lasting results. You have to integrate it into your daily life. [00:30:30] Jeff Hunt: Yes, exactly.

Okay, let’s move into some lightning-round questions. These are quick and easy. First one—what are you most grateful for?

[00:30:41] Dr. Keren Tsuk: My life, my journey, and my transformation.

[00:30:46] Jeff Hunt: What is the most difficult leadership lesson you’ve learned over your career?

[00:30:51] Dr. Keren Tsuk: That you need to truly see people.

Earlier in my career, when I was teaching at a university, I was so focused on delivering theoretical material that I didn’t really see my students. That was a big lesson for me.

[00:31:05] Jeff Hunt: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:07] Dr. Keren Tsuk: Now, I understand that seeing the people in front of you is far more important than simply delivering content.

[00:31:12] Jeff Hunt: That’s a tremendous insight. In a way, it encapsulates the theme of this entire episode. Thank you for sharing that.

If you could interview one person, living or not, who would it be?

[00:31:25] Dr. Keren Tsuk: Nelson Mandela.

[00:31:27] Jeff Hunt: Great choice.

What’s your top book recommendation for our listeners—besides Wisdom to Lead, of course?

[00:31:37] Dr. Keren Tsuk: When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chödrön—it’s like my personal Bible. I revisit it often, and each time, I go deeper.

Also, The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle.

[00:31:51] Jeff Hunt: Fantastic.

What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever received?

[00:31:54] Dr. Keren Tsuk: Be vulnerable. Be authentic. Be yourself.

[00:32:05] Jeff Hunt: That’s such simple yet profound advice.

[00:32:07] Dr. Keren Tsuk: It’s also incredibly challenging to follow!

[00:32:09] Jeff Hunt: Yes, it is.

Karen, you’ve shared so much wisdom today. Before we wrap up, can you summarize the one or two most important takeaways for our listeners?

[00:32:24] Dr. Keren Tsuk: First, I encourage everyone to find a way to pause that works for them. There are many ways to practice mindfulness—it could be a walking meditation, spending time in nature, or another method that resonates with you. The key is to find something you enjoy and make it part of your routine. If you don’t enjoy it, you won’t stick with it.

Second, practice self-compassion. We tend to be incredibly hard on ourselves. But once we learn to be kind to ourselves, we can extend that compassion to others.

[00:33:03] Jeff Hunt: Completely agree. And lastly, where can people find you if they want to learn more?

[00:33:09] Dr. Keren Tsuk: They can find me on my website, www.wisdomtolead.co, or on LinkedIn—just search for Dr. Keren Tsuk.

[00:33:17] Jeff Hunt: Dr. Keren Tsuk, thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:33:20] Dr. Keren Tsuk: Thank you so much for having me!