Bonus: Jeff Hunt, CEO GoalSpan

Jeff Hunt:

Hey everyone, this is Jeff Hunt, your Human Capital podcast host. I was recently interviewed on "The Era Podcast" by Brad Rencher, the CEO of BambooHR, and this was one of my favorite conversations in recent memory, so I'm excited to share that interview with you.

As a teaser, Brad and I talk about core values, workforce alignment, and how culture can be the great differentiator. Brad speaks the language of culture, having shaped it in countless organizations over his carer. Hop on over to "The Era Podcast" to listen to other great episodes and please don't forget to rate and review Human Capital on all your favorite streaming platforms, let's have a listen.

Intro

Welcome to The Era where Brad Rencher, CEO of BambooHR, asks the question, Does putting employees first really lead to better business outcomes? We think we know the answer, but let's dig in and find out.

Brad Rencher:

Hi everyone. Welcome back to the next episode of the era, where we really go deep on the fundamental hypothesis that the employee experience is a key driver of business outcomes and ultimately business success. This is the conversation that's dominating c-suites and boardrooms really across the world. And we're so excited today to welcome Jeff Hunt, the CEO and founder of GoalSpan.

GoalSpan is a performance management system that helps teams achieve better results in their employee engagement through improved feedback, goal transparency and really the whole process around this. Jeff also hosts a successful podcast, Human Capital, to really dove deep into the deeply human aspect of work. What a fantastic and great focus to bring some humanity back into the workplace. So check it out. Love this Jeff, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Jeff Hunt:

Thanks for having me, Brad. It's great to be here.

Brad Rencher:

So I think we should just jump into it. And the thing that I the topic I am so excited to get into with you is let's start with employee experience and culture. How do these two ideas work together in your mind?

Jeff Hunt:

First of all, I think we have to come at employee experience with a common definition and understanding, because part of the challenge is that leaders of all types think about experience differently. And so just to kind of put that out there, I see employee experience as being the sum total of all experiences an employee has over the duration of their relationship with the company.

So that includes everything from the recruiting process, applicant tracking, onboarding. What's indoctrination to core values look like? What is their various processes related to technology and meeting and performance and then offboarding? What does everything look like within the organization and then culture is this intangible, ethereal thing that exists that just drives people. They want to come to work because of the culture or they want to leave.

They can't get out there fast enough because it's not a good culture. So I think there's a a beautiful blending of these two that when we talk about them, it's not that difficult to implement some simple practices to really create a valuable culture and employee experience together.

Brad Rencher:

And Jeff and I love thank you for pausing to define in your mind kind of what does employee experience mean. Let's just double click quickly into that and then come back to the how these two come together. Where do you see in your work? Most companies maybe define employee experience too narrowly or maybe so broadly that they can't really get their arms around it. Like where? Where in your work do you see people maybe just missing the mark on that?

Jeff Hunt:

Part of it is employee experience. We have to realize is the the standard for that or the benchmark is actually being set outside your company. So like when when an employee or any person has an experience with a company, let's say I go stay at the Ritz-Carlton or I fly on Southwest Airlines or I walk into Starbucks to get my latte. I'm having an experience with that organization.

And so I believe that employee experience is actually defined by the the last, best sort of experience you've had with these other organizations. So when you come to your company and you're working there, you're expecting that same level of standard and care in everything they do. And so that's, I think, where I would take the perspective that leaders don't always have the right sort of focus.

They're either looking at it to big picture, like you said, Brad, or they get too myopic in their thinking, okay, for us to have good experience, we have to have this laundry list of things and we're going to have that. We're going to check them off. And once we do those, we know we've arrived and it doesn't work that way. It's much more nuanced.

Brad Rencher:

Yeah, it is interesting. You kind of talked about...there's been this drumbeat over the over the last decade around customer experience. Right. The digitization of the customer experience in every brand in the world shipped an app and they thought, if I had an app, then it was going to transform my customer experience and ultimately help my business. And what they found was it wasn't that simple. Like, it was much more nuanced.

The customer experience is nuanced, just like the employee experience, to where it's not a checklist, it is at all these different touchpoints. You need to make sure that the tapestry of that customer experience is consistent. It is continuous. And, you know, and it's interesting that when I think there are some hard lessons learned there for businesses, but then they're coming back to employee experience with the great resignation and everything that's happened and they're going back to checklists, they're like, well, you know, let's let's look at our onboarding check, check, check, and and and they're falling short because they're not looking at the totality, maybe this tapestry of all these experiences and how they come together.

Jeff Hunt:

I agree completely. And I think that if you look at. Our lands, our perspective on the customer. It provides such a great example of how to look at the employee. You know, we do a great job creating customer experiences. Of course, BambooHR does a fabulous job at that, and that's one of the reasons why we love partnering with you.

But the customer experience is a very is a very intentional, intentionally designed set of strategies. And if we turn that mirror around and we simply start treating employees with the same level of intentionality, so they're treated as internal customers, then we solve a lot of the problems that currently exist in companies related to employee experience.

Brad Rencher:

Yeah, that, that connection of the same intentionality that you give in your business to your customer experience, can you apply that same intentionality to your employee experience? I love that thought and the challenge behind that.

Jeff Hunt:

Yes, it's a big one.

Brad Rencher:

That is a call to action.

Jeff Hunt:

Yes. And it's often sort of kicked over to HR when strategically it's not really an HR thing. I mean, this is a company wide strategic initiative that has the implications of really improving our organization in every aspect from revenue and follow through and communication to if we're not doing things well, we can quickly derail. So anyway.

Brad Rencher:

So let's get back to let's get back and maybe double click a little bit on your thoughts on culture and, and then ultimately get into how that's feeding into the employee experience. But you were riffing a minute on how you think about culture at GoalSpan and in your in your work. So maybe could you take us down the path of how you work with companies and talk about and think about culture?

Jeff Hunt:

Sure. I think that culture, as I mentioned in the intro, was our beginning was is really more of this ethereal feeling. Yeah, I would say that it's a set of operating beliefs and practices that don't have to be told. So if and every organization has this has a culture, whether it's a positive culture or a negative one. And I believe that culture in many ways is something that is built over a long period of time. If you think of what you know, why why do people travel?

They love going into different communities and experiencing those different types of cultures. And so you can have two exceptional cultures that are very different from each other. And the beauty of that brand, in my opinion, is they are the great differentiator. So that's one of the reasons why I believe we need to be, as leaders, paying so much attention to this. Is it culture embodies what is most important in an organization. So for instance, like I could you can go copy a company's business strategies or marketing plans or policies, or you can even try to hire away their employees. But you can't copy their culture. It's like the ultimate differentiator.

And that's one of the things that I love about it is it is this unique combination of kind of core values, but it includes the relationships and interactions and how we treat each other, process disciplines, how we treat our customers, the way we make decisions. And so it's difficult to build, like I said, but with the right level of intentionality, anyone can come in and help an organization improve their culture.

Brad Rencher:

It's interesting. I love you know, you've said this several times on your podcast and in in other spots that there's this that culture is the greatest differentiator in business. And I love the how you express that. It's almost this secret recipe. I had this I had a call with a a Chief Product Officer for a company in the SAS software space. And he said, actually, I'm willing to give my entire roadmap to my competitors like I would give every feature I'm going to build. I will do that because that's not what makes us different. Because I believe that we can execute and build that in a unique way. It's almost a secret recipe. It gets injected even to something as as unfeeling as bits and bytes of software. Right? Like the culture gets injected in there. And the way that the teams work together maybe allows that company to ship even with the same feature, but to be able to differentiate themselves even in the expression of their software completely.

Jeff Hunt:

And it allows them to, in many cases, actually charge more than their competitors and get away with it because people are willing to pay for it. I think just as an add on Brad to what you're saying, okay. So going back to defining culture, the best cultures, in my opinion, are obviously grounded by trust. And so if you if we get pragmatic for a minute about the common what are sort of the common themes we see not only trust but compassionate connection.

So this is where I'm working on my team and I care a lot about you as a person in addition to being a producer. And so there's connection between employees and managers and teams and peers, and we care about each other. We were motivated by a common vision and goals. So we have work in pursuit together is what it is. And by the way, if Brad, if I'm working for you and I know you care about me, I'm a lot more likely to perform at a higher level.

And you're a lot more likely to hold me accountable without any personal stuff going on in the background. So ultimately it leads to a much better high performing organization when we build great cultures.

Brad Rencher:

So the underlying foundation is trust. This is what you're laying out for us, and then applied with some compassion and connection from, I'd say, manager to the team member. And that's the recipe. So. But the expression of culture from one place to another is so different. Is there is there a recipe for a culture that delivers great employee experiences because it's. Or does it need to be? Does it. I guess the question is, is there is there one type of culture that delivers great employee experience over another? Or can it really be done in a variety of different cultures?

Jeff Hunt:

It can be done like, do you want creme brulee or do you want apple pie? I mean, you can have an exceptional dessert either way. And I feel like the the differentiating factor is often core values. And so its core values are sort of a main principle of culture, but they are not culture. There's way more to it. But, every organization like culture also has core values there, either stated or not.

And so I could basically parachute into an organization and be hang out there for a few weeks and probably tell you what the core values are of that organization, good or bad. And the organizations will often write their core values and put them all over the walls, but they're not actually living them out. You know, as Patrick Lencioni wrote and The Five Dysfunctions of the Team. You know, they're they're aspirational values. They're not actual core values. They're what we want to become, but they're not who we are today.

So I think core values are absolutely paramount as a component of culture.

Brad Rencher:

Yeah. It it as you think about, well, let's step back with culture and core values where you just landed on this part. So you've got a quote that says The ultimate job of the leader is to build great culture. And this is the greatest differentiator in business is a point that you've you've made and that resonates deeply with me. So then, Jeff, why do so many, so many leaders struggle to create great culture?

Jeff Hunt:

That is such a good question because it seems so obvious to me that it's critically important. So why don't we just do it? But if you look at the challenges facing business, I mean, business, obviously, you're you're running a decent sized company. I'm running a software company. It's like they're complicated animals.

And I would say one of the biggest problems is that people end up just working for the company rather than on the company. They get so bogged down with tactical things and there's so much pressure to perform every day that they lose sight of the importance day to day conversations that need to take place. It takes a lot of effort to actually set aside time to have 1 to 1 meetings, for instance. I mean, you're busy. I'm busy. But if we invest in that and our direct reports understand better what's going on in our company and where we're going, where our vision is headed, what our long term strategies and objectives are, they're going to be more engaged.

They're going to be more connected relationally. If we take time together to have them be able to express how I can support them better in their role, then they feel heard and understood. They feel seen, and we're going to end up with a better culture. But going back to your original question, I think it's a matter of like time and prioritization.

Brad Rencher:

Yeah, I, I'm just I'm just taking some notes there because there's there's this great, great knowledge there. It it reminds me of Brian Halligan, who is the CEO and founder of HubSpot, who, you know, HubSpot, I think, has got a great culture and a very strong culture, not for maybe everybody, but a very, very intentional culture.

He said he said that as a CEO he really thinks of the company as having two products. One is a product that they build and that they they put out to the world to attract and retain customers. And the second product that they put out to the world is their culture. And their culture is is what attracts and retains employees. And I thought it was like a light bulb went off in my head to where it's like, yes, that's what companies do.

You have a product that you that you put out into the world that that attracts and retains customers. And you have the same product, which is your culture for your employees. And it was to me, it this landed exactly what you're talking about.

Jeff Hunt:

I love that example. It's a great one. And I also think I was just reflecting, Brad, as you were sharing that. Leaders derail also because culture is one of these intangible things. And so it's really easy to talk about strategy or new markets or new products, how we're going to innovate next year, how we're going to become more efficient or productive, maybe even cut costs, make acquisitions. Those are like very healthy, left, brain oriented activities.

And culture is not. And so it's easy to ignore, but. I believe that's a really smart business model to think of it in terms of those two elements and the value of employee culture. Because once you get it fine tuned and it's humming, it pays massive dividends. It's like you don't have to recruit very hard. People just want to come to work for you. You don't have to work on retention or worry as much about the great resignation because people want to stay.

They care for each other, they understand where you're going, they understand their role and how they fit in, and they want to show up and be a part of the team.

Brad Rencher:

Yeah, it I go back to the leaders who might be listening here and saying, okay, great. So in addition to the to the all the day to day business operations and all these things, I've got to think about like I'm the primary business, the builder of culture. And the answer is, yeah, you do. And, and you shared something on LinkedIn a few weeks ago, Jeff. It was an article from HBR that that that was titled Ego Is the Enemy of Good Leadership. How do you see how do you see leaders egos getting in the way of good leadership leading to great culture?

Jeff Hunt:

Oh, I love this topic. And ego is unfortunately perpetuating a lot of people in leadership positions because they assert themselves and so over their careers they continue to assert and perform and they move into those roles. And often that is, it can be at the expense of the people that they work with. And I think if you peel back the onion on that, why why does ego not work?

It's because ego doesn't allow room for team members to really be heard and understood and connected. And it becomes ego, If you think about ego is...I'll just ask you a question about is ego team oriented or individual oriented? It's pretty easy. It's like the best organizations have the highest performing teams. And when you have ego, you create the outcomes being most important for me as an individual rather than us as a team. And that's super problematic because people don't really want to be a part of that.

They want to be a part of a team. And so if I'm working for a league leader that's egocentric, then I'm going to feel like it's, you know, it's always going to be for them or their motivations, not necessarily for for my own motivation. So I don't know if that answered your question, but that's kind of my yeah.

Brad Rencher:

I think it really does. I see so many times exactly in the path that you're thinking about is many time leaders. They place themselves as the central character in every narrative for the business.

Jeff Hunt:

Exactly.

Brad Rencher:

It's like, no, I'm the lead character and they get so used to doing that. I remember walking through the hallways of one large global tech technology organization and kind of getting a tour, and the person commented like, Oh, do you see that conference room over there? That's the good news conference room, because you're only allowed to take good news into that conference room to engage with the executive and the leader. And you think about the problems that that starts to create that that's known as a cultural element, like no, no, only good news makes it to the ears of that person. Like it's absolutely.

Jeff Hunt:

Problematic.

Brad Rencher:

You can see how that. But so then on the flip side of ego, let's talk about what is the role of humility, gratitude as a leader in creating culture?

Jeff Hunt:

I think it's everything, but I think often humility is another sort of behavioral attribute that's misunderstood. I think that...

Yeah, because is it soft, is it week? It can be soft and weak, but strong leaders can be humble and they can express humility and out of a point of strength or a position of strength. And so one example would be if a leader is self-deprecating in their humility, that can oftentimes be an unhealthy leader. A leaders form of humility, in my opinion, that's super helpful, is when they realize they've made a mistake and they literally just own up to it. The egocentric leader we were talking about earlier doesn't do that.

They're in it for their own credit. They want to see themself excel at the expense of the team or the organization. The humble leader or the humility based leader is one who is willing to step back and let others have the credit and also give the credit to the team, the organization, rather than always pursuing credit themselves. And people at the end of the day really respect that. Like they're it's it's much more a track. It's a more attractive leader to want to follow because it's real. It's like we're all human and we we make mistakes.

And, you know, and humility also allows for margin of other opinions and more of a collaborative approach. It's not thinking like you have all the answers because you don't necessarily have all the answers. Sometimes you'll come up with great answers and they'll be used. But oftentimes other people will come up with fantastic answers. So give them the credit.

Brad Rencher:

I love that. I love that because so many times, you know, that humility, humility may come across you know, people interpret that I think it's a misunderstood word. And I love how you kind of walked us through that. So let's let's now, like take this to your leadership and your role and what gold spans all about. Like maybe take me and this is is found in 2008, right? So take me all the way back. Like, what problems did you see then that you wanted to solve, and how has that evolved over the last 14 years?

Jeff Hunt:

Sure, that's a great question. So well, if I go back to the very beginning before I founded the company, I already had an understanding of some of these challenges. And I had the opportunity to run public and private companies over the course of my career. And it pretty consistently realized that one of the most difficult disciplines was this implementation of culture and performance management.

And so even when I was running my own consulting firm, I found the exact same thing was true with our clients. And it was really, I guess back then. Brad It was more about performance management in terms of executing plan. So we would execute, we would build our strategic plan, do an offside people come back motivated, inspired, ready to rock and roll, and then they would go off plan within six months or so. Same thing with our clients in the consulting world. And so that was in the beginning. Why I ended up pivoting and actually starting the software company is because I wanted to build software that would help organizations not only do performance management well, but even more importantly, align their workforces around what was most important.

And so. Yeah, that really has evolved into, you know, kind of the importance of feedback. Rich cultures that are built with conversations that are forward focused or coaching oriented. And we do the same thing at GoalSpan. So we, we do everything we can to make sure people understand our culture, and that includes a clear understanding of our core values and what those look like. I think I'll just pause there because I think that's another opportunity for organizations, is they'll they'll say what their core values are like a GoalSpan our core values, our curiosity, integrity, resourcefulness and care. And. We take the time to define each one of those words so that it's super clear to people what they mean behaviorally.

And I think organizations often don't do that. So what does that behavior look like at my company? What do your core values look like when they show up in your company? And then we make sure people are affirmed when they're supporting those core values. We pay attention to them. We talk about them regularly. We build them into performance management processes so that we have an opportunity to share what's working well and what's not working well. And then we recruit using those core values.

So when we're interviewing, looking for people, we're always trying to make sure they are in alignment with those. Because I can have a highly competent person who may have exceptional experience and just checks the box on everything. But if they're not going to fit culturally, then we will make the tough decision not to hire them and bring them on board. So. Those are some examples. I don't know if that fully answers you.

Brad Rencher:

Yeah, and it does. And so. Okay. So you're talking to a someone who's just getting started in their business. Maybe this hire their first couple of employees. What are some guiding principles? You just had a couple of great nuggets in there. As you think about values, what are some guiding principles around? Establishing mission, the vision, mission, values.

How do those all play together? These we throw these words out, but I think they sometimes get almost used interchangeably. And how do they interact? Like. Like what are the principles you use to do this at goal span? And what did you learn through that process?

Jeff Hunt:

Good point. I think going back to your the first part of what you said. Most organizations, at least in the startup mode, sort of embody the core values of their individual leader. So whoever is starting the company. And oftentimes those will be carried through generations even. And then there'll be new core values added and things will be tweaked and changed. But you also you always sort of have this common core. And so that's an important element. And I think that we're going back to your original what was the second part of your question?

Brad Rencher:

And the part was what are what are some guidelines or guiding principles you would give for establishing a vision, mission, values?

Jeff Hunt:

Exactly. Okay. So vision first of all, we have to have a common language of what these means. So I'm really glad you brought that up because vision to me. Is a statement that represents some of who you are today and who you are becoming in the future. And it should be short but inspirational, and it should be action oriented. How are you going to change the world or your marketplace or your society or community or your customers?

And I love vision when it's pragmatic enough to sort of unpack the various operative words that exist. So, for instance, if you are going to be if you're, you know, if you're going to create something, what is that going to look like at the end of the day when it's been created? So let's get really pragmatic about that versus mission is really what you do, who you do it for, why it's important to your customers, society, your employees. It's a much more pragmatic. The we show up in the world and what we do and core values are this like we were talking earlier this small set of guiding principles and they exist today and you want to become more of what they define or you know, what they represent, but they exist today and they define our behaviors, how we interact with each other, how we interact with customers, suppliers, vendors, all stakeholders, shareholders.

And they're critically important because they establish sort of the the the playbook for how we're going to interact with each other on an ongoing basis. So that's how I see those three elements.

Brad Rencher:

And, and, and, you know, as you think about as you think about each one of these is one more important than the other in your mind. If you could like nail mission, vision or values, which one would you say, Hey, make sure you nailed this one?

Jeff Hunt:

I would say that. Vision precedes everything because if you don't know where you're going, you're not going to get people to come along with you. And vision is can be stated in a vision statement, but it's also reflected in the way the CEO shows up to meetings and how the leadership team is communicating with the rest of the organization so, where organizations derail is they don't talk about this enough.

So once again, they go back. I go back to the to the tactical day to day. Am I working on the business or for the business? The vision communication of the vision needs to be a broken record. People need to be sick and tired of hearing about where you are all going as a team, as an organization, and why it's so important and compelling and exciting and why they want to be a part of that. So. And then once you have vision, then you can establish a lot of things. So when we have a vision, then we can establish objectives.

We can look at what are the three most important things for us to get done as a company in the next year, three years, five years. And then you can cascade that down, of course, to the leadership team and their individual goals and then all the indirect reports throughout the organization, those can be connected up to the role. So vision undergirds everything, and then core values is absolutely like right up there. Because if we say the vision is to, you know, conquer the world, and then we have salespeople that exceed quota every month that nobody can get along with them, that's really problematic.

So that's where our core values provide those guardrails on the behaviors. So we don't end up with salespeople who exceed quota that nobody can get along with. Yeah. And then the mission is easy. It's like missions important, and we should speak to it and talk about it. But it's something that's more of an exercise. We're going to come up with it and it'll be written down. And people need to understand it because it really it's important from the standpoint that it's describing our marketplace. And oftentimes it's important to describe who or not as much as it is who we are. And the mission helps to do that.

Brad Rencher:

Helps to define that. And Jeff, that right there is a masterclass in how to start to think about establishing these things. Thank you for that. And you said one thing that I want to make sure that that the touch on and then let's get into performance reviews because that's one thing that that leaders talk to me a lot about, like how to do this effectively. But you said one thing on, you know, as leaders.

Many time leaders will say to me, like, Brad, I really I just don't like our culture or I really don't like our values. And and you said something. It's like the the values and really the culture are a reflection of the founders or a reflection of the leaders. It's like. So I almost want to say sometimes if you don't like what's happening, hold up a mirror, because it's actually just reflecting how you show up in the organization.

Jeff Hunt:

That's a great point. That is such a good point.

Yeah. So what I would let's let's go now, Jeff, let's dove into performance the row of performance reviews in the modern world. I mean, this is the world that you're in. Like, how how do you think about performance reviews today?

Jeff Hunt:

Well, I think of performance reviews today in a very different context than historically. And I think that's important to share because it creates a little bit of a framework for people. The historical context, of course, is this check the box event that managers hate, employees hate. It's ineffective. It doesn't really affect change, and it's not really managing performance. It's a rearview mirror exercise that is compliance based.

Whereas performance management performance reviews today should be in a best practice, part of a broader ecosystem of continuous performance management, which requires both internal disciplines and software to make it happen really well and like a like a well-oiled machine. And those and I and I'm happy to share more if you want, Brad. I don't want to get lost in the weeds, but that's my kind of high level take on the difference. I'll just add one more thing before you jump back in.

I would say that bringing it to the modern age, it's critical to include key elements like ongoing feedback and regular touchpoints 1 to 1 meetings, making sure that the goals and objectives are actually integrated into those conversations. So we are talking about both what is being accomplished on a regular basis and also how and it becomes a two way conversation. So it's not just a monologue of the manager telling the employee how they're performing, but it's an interactive dialog that the employee has an opportunity to express where the manager can support the employee better, and they walk away from it with feeling encouraged and motivated and coached.

And, you know, with a Ford focus on that whole lens versus historically this anxiety producing thing where the employee's ready to have the review meeting and their their heart starts racing and it's all tied to their pay increase and it's ineffective. So anyway.

Brad Rencher:

And how, how would a leader know which mode they're in? Like like if they'd say, well, I wonder which mode ran are we in the check, the box mode. Are we in the interactive dialog mode. Like, like what, what's the fact pattern that they should be looking for?

Jeff Hunt:

Well, the first thing that they should look at are the strategies that they're currently using for performance management. So are those strategies very calendar oriented and are they global strategies that included some of the the earlier things that I described? So do you do you only. Do an annual performance review. Is it an event that everybody gears up for and then after those things are done, are you pretty much done with that for a year or are you having ongoing conversations?

And so that's one element. The second is, have you actually sat down and talked to your leadership team about this, not just HR, but as the CEO or president, have you hosted a meeting to really discuss what performance reviews and performance management in its best form looks like for you individually as an organization? If you haven't done that, then you may have some maturity or growth in in this area.

Brad Rencher:

When a call to action for leaders to say have you have you demonstrated through your own efforts and your own communication the importance of this interactive dialog around, you know, around performance, around growth and development? You know, have you set the expectations of what you're going to be or do you say, oh, that's an HR Thing?

Jeff Hunt:

Yeah, exactly. I think it's it's a company wide initiative. And then the other thing that I'm just remembering is that training is absolutely paramount. How can we expect our leaders to go out and help us transform performance reviews into continuous performance management process if we haven't given them the tools and training to make that happen?

I personally would not want to go to an amateur for dental work. I'm going to go to somebody who's a dentist because I don't want somebody who's not skilled messing with my teeth. They're going to possibly mess them up. So it's the same thing. We can have a complete counter effect if we're not teaching and training all of the leaders, managers, supervisors and our organizations. How to do this properly.

Brad Rencher: Do you like? I think the critical element of this interactive dialog is there is not just an annual process and that there's constant feedback. And because the best feedback is one that's actually given in the moment.

Jeff Hunt:

Absolutely.

Brad Rencher:

Do you train your leaders how to give feedback?

Jeff Hunt:

Yes. It requires conversations around what how to have difficult conversations and talking to them about how to hold employees accountable in a depersonalized way and equipping them for active listening and asking the right questions and leveraging silence in conversation, strategic silence to have the employee be able to really speak up and share what's on their heart and what's working well and what's not.

Brad Rencher:

So absolutely such, you know, such a a hard thing to get right. But if you're a business leader, you're in, you're listening and you're saying we are struggling with retention, we are struggling to attract people that we need to attract to grow our business.

I think this is an area that you could look at and invest because if you do what, Jeff, you're talking about better than your competitors and you do it sustained month after month, quarter after quarter, year after year, you give better feedback. Your people become better at implementing that feedback. Your business is going to transform. I mean, don't you think, Jeff? I mean, isn't that the outcome that you think people get to?

Jeff Hunt:

No question. No question about it. And it comes back to some of what we were talking about earlier, Brad, which is also the connection we have with employees. So when we're taking an interest in them personally, they're going to most likely want to improve and perform and grow at a higher level, at a better level than if I just see them as a as a producer. So, yeah, you are absolutely right.

Brad Rencher:

I do. You know, and back to you know, because you think about the employee experience back to that, the this idea that if leaders are focused there, that that's going to transform the business. I mean, this is the performance management process that the check the box process does not help with that.

Jeff Hunt:

No, not at all.

Brad Rencher:

This is a modern approach to employee experience that is powerful and human.

Jeff Hunt:

Exactly. No question.

Brad Rencher:

So I just I just I love I love the the approach there. Well, Jeff, I appreciate the conversation today. I have one final question that I'd love to ask you, and then and then we will wrap. But Jeff, you've got a wide ranging background, some great leadership experience. How would you boil all of these leadership philosophies and experience you have into one sentence? Like what? What is your core philosophy?

Jeff Hunt:

Great question. I would say that. That the best leaders are inspiring and they're ambitious. And they're also curious at the same time about everything they do, people and processes. And they hold people accountable. And the best leaders build compassionate and connecting relationships at the same time. They do those other things. So that was a mouthful. But that's my sentence and I'm sticking to it.

Brad Rencher:

That's your sentence. We'll take it. It's great. Jeff, thank you so much for joining this episode of The Era, where we really dive deep on the employee experience and the outcome that it can provide for your business, a wonderful experience for employees, and ultimately more business outcomes and success over time. And we just I've just really enjoyed the conversation. I know our listeners will as well as well. Jeff, thank you for joining.

Jeff Hunt:

Thanks for having me.

Brad Rencher:

Thank you. See you next time.

Outro (45:32)

Looking for ways to combat the great resignation and keep your very best people. Check out the 2022 Guide to Retention. You'll discover just how hard it is for organizations to retain employees in 2022. Why people leave and learn what you can do to boost retention and minimize turnover in your organization. Find this guide and many more helpful resources at bamboohr.com/resources and discover more ways you can do great work. That's bamboohr.com/resources. You've been listening to The Era. Stay connected with us by subscribing to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you like what you've heard, please rate the show. Your feedback helps us make content that's valuable to you and your work. Thanks for listening. Until next time.